KUALA LUMPUR: Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar talks toThe Star Online and mStar Online on current issues, including arrests under the Internal Security Act (ISA), the banning of the Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf), race relations, racial politics and the role of the media (both print and online).
In this first of two parts of the interview, Syed Hamid says that the imposition of the ISA is not something he takes lightly. He also talks about the need for Malaysians to take pride in their diversity and promote shared values.
This is an excerpt of the interview- from the Star Online.
ON THE ISA
The Star Online: Datuk Seri, there are a few issues we would like to address. The two main ones are the ISA and the banning of Hindraf.
Syed Hamid: There are two things that I am guided by in life. The first is to make sure I act justly and the second fairly. It is not easy to detain a person eventhough you’re acting legally because the law gives you that power. That power is not a privilege, it is a responsibility which I consider to be very heavy.
Everyone is discussing now how the ISA is outdated and not timely but we tend to forget the history behind it all. It is like what I always say – to build it takes time, you need the engineers, you need the architects and you need the contractors to build according to specifications. But when you want to destroy, it only takes minutes. The whole thing would crumble.
(It is about) ensuring law and order, peace and security, and comfort to the public. And we must ensure we are not guided by a need to be popular but by public interest. But people say what right have you got to decide what is a threat? Let the public decide. Let them determine it themselves. I think it’s a question of whether you want to govern or want to surrender governing. You must ensure that there is good governance, subject to public scrutiny, public debate and discussion.
Under public discussion, the discourse must give both sides an opportunity to be heard. But if there is a judgemental issue, where it is already concluded that certain things are wrong, then we would be hard pressed. We would become defensive in areas where we are given the responsibility, where we take action because we believe that it is the right course of action.
That’s how I look at all the things that we do — the bottom line is public interest, which is equal to maintaining public order, maintaining security and understanding perceptions and threats. If we are wrong, then the court can decide that we are wrong. But meanwhile, we cannot wait for things to happen in order for us to take action.
I’m actually very worried. I would not like to curtail freedom, people’s liberal thinking, but we must know where the demarcations are.
THE USE OF THE ISA
Syed Hamid: There are two parts to the ISA, one is operational and the other is detention. The operational part is another form of remand, which the police are allowed (to use) under the law. This operational part is considered routine police work, which no Home Minister should know anyway. I should not know, it’s operational field work. Even the IGP (Inspector General of Police), he delegates the function to his officers, then he gets the total information. In my case, I’m a policy maker looking at the macro situation. If there is a public interest matter, I will look into it.
There is a case where Section 73 was interpreted by the Federal Court. I think Karam Singh v PP, where the court decided the police have the right to arrest under ISA even on the basis of suspicion. The one in Johor (the arrest of the Johor Suaram secretary under Section 28 of the ISA recently), it is suspicion.
Again, everyone, even the Canadian Embassy asked me. When I was first asked that question (about the arrest), I said I do not know. Truly I did not know. Because in this particular case, for the police, how do you deal with people who allegedly reported falsely? The police take action accordingly. You have to go to court anyway (under Section 28 of the ISA). You have to charge the person in court. So, it’s not excluding due process. Even under Section 73, you can file a habeas corpus (application). Due process is there.
Even under detention by the Minister, the due process is that you can still bring habeas corpus in order to determine whether the grounds (cited) by the Minister is correct. If the court is not satisfied, it will release the person.
The other part that people seldom discuss is that after three months from the time of the arrest, there is an advisory panel in which the Home Minister cannot be involved – to advise whether the person should continue to be detained. After that, every six months, it (the order) is subject to review — to see whether the person’s detention should be continued or not.
So, I think there are protective measures. But it’s always difficult, when you’re using preventive laws. It is not easy. When I do it, I have to search my conscience to make sure I do not do injustice.
There are various types of NGOs. Sometimes, a one-member NGO acts like it represents a 100,000. I think there is different thinking also among the urban population and the intellectuals and families and the media. How do you create that balance to ensure that everybody feels safe?
People say there will come a time when there should be a total abolition of the ISA and preventive laws. Then, you do it at that time. But at present, we believe the majority of the people feel that there is a need for preventive laws.
PEACE IN MALAYSIA
Syed Hamid: When other law enforcement agencies come here, they say ‘you’re lucky to have the ISA.’ They say, ‘because of your ISA there are so many things that do not happen – the Bali bombing, extremist groups.’
But in Malaysia, we take all these for granted because everybody can go around (safely). When they are not happy, they condemn the enforcement officers, the police, Immigration, all sorts of things. This is the beauty of living in a peaceful democratic country – to be able to live comfortably. The government is sensitive to public comment, to protests, but it must be legitimate for us to respond to it.
People keep on changing their values. Do you remember at one time homosexuality in most countries was an offence. Now it is an accepted social norm — some countries now have laws that allow for same-sex marriages. The values of society change with time. Somebody in the Opposition was saying, ‘why don’t we make this homosexuality acceptable? After all people do it’. But the fact that people do it, does not make it right. The Muslims would never accept it and neither would the Christians. The majority of conventions would tell you it is not allowed.
Our society is more mature but would this create more polarisation? We have to decide. Maybe not during my generation — we might become so comfortable with each other that preventive laws are not necessary.
RACIAL POLITICS
Q: Whenever a political party is having its elections or general asemblies, there are always some politicians who use the racial card to further themselves. What is your view on this?
Syed Hamid: It will be a long time before we de-racialise our thinking. My own view is that we must accept our diversity. Barisan Nasional in its true ideal always propagated the ideal of multi-culturalism. The other parties follow this.
Opposition parties might say they practise this, but not in reality. Pakatan (Rakyat) needs to stay together in a marriage of convenience because they want to replace Barisan. But look at how they placed their candidates (in the general election), Chinese area — DAP, mixed area — PKR, Muslim area — PAS.
Q:Do you think Barisan Nasional is becoming obselete now as it is a composition of race-based parties? Is it time to have just a single party to represent all Malaysians?
Syed Hamid: I think it’ll be some time before that happens. It is more important to have a sense of cooperation and goodwill with each other. If you look at the mix of Barisan today, it is a total representation of all the country’s multi-ethnicity. But the problem is, after the last elections everyone is trying to apportion blame to the other. That’s how you create the problem.
We should have done our soul-searching. Why did people reject us? We have so much development, so much improvement for the well-being of our multi-racial society, yet people voted against us. There must be something wrong within us.
There was less intolerance in the old days. Today there are more (racial) lines. We are suddenly more conscious of these racial lines. We need to rebrand Malaysian politics and review how we go about achieving our objectives.
All of us, let’s stop the blaming and talk about how to build a Malaysian nation, then there will be a mind set change. People say the politicians destroy unity, the politicians say the newspapers destroy unity, the papers look at the Internet and what is said there is worse.
Handle issues with care. Don’t let them catch fire. If we sit as friends and talk about sensitive issues, it doesn’t create anger and animosity, we begin to understand each other’s problems. But if we discuss openly, the same subject becomes explosive. We must know the nature of our discussion. Take the May 13 issue, it had nothing to do with race. It had to do with not resolving certain economic issues.
RACE RELATIONS ACT
Syed Hamid: We are talking about the possibility of having a Race Relations Act. I was looking at all the Race Relations Acts but before we have come to any decision, somebody reads the paper and said “Is this another ISA?” So suspicious of everything.
Our country has a Constitution. Certain things are entrenched. How do we go about achieving some of those objectives? I would like to open up a public debate. At the end of it, we must allow the Government to decide what’s best, what we should do.
Q: Has the Government decided yet on the composition of the Act?
Syed Hamid: We’re still studying the Act and discussing with the Unity, Culture, Arts and Heritage Ministry. I don’t consider it as a security issue but at present, a lot of questions are being asked about law and order, and peace and security relating to the Act. Ultimately, it would be the Unity Ministry (which handles it).
We have to look at what the people want. We will take into account how it (the Act) can match with the aspirations of the people. We have not made a final decision yet. It was brought up in the Cabinet and we are discussing certain sensitive issues.
In Part 2 of the interview, Syed Hamid talks about the banning of Hindraf and the responsibility of the media and bloggers
Today at 13: 37.22 (9 hours ago)If I am guilty of those allegations I won’t want to be subjected to a RCI. You think I am dungu or what?
However if I am clean I will willingly go through one otherwise how to be portrayed as a clean PM?
Today at 13: 37.30 (9 hours ago)A life had been lost and most tragically at that. We can only feel sorry for Dr Shaaribu, father of the murdered Mongolian beauty. Only God knows who her murder/murderers are. Time will tell.Truth and justice will prevail in the end!
Today at 13: 46.38 (8 hours ago)“Shah Alam High Court judge Datuk Mohd Zaki Md Yasin yesterday acquitted political analyst Abdul Razak Baginda of the charge of abetment in the murder of Mongolian Altantuya Shaariibuu on October 19, 2006 on the ground that no evidence was adduced by the prosecution to contradict or challenge the exculpatory parts of Razak’s affidavit in his earlier unsuccessful bail application.” Uncle Lim.
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There are more unanswered questions than a simple acquittal. Someone should start a “X-File” investigation.
“THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE”!
Today at 13: 47.38 (8 hours ago)It seems the prosecution did not check out all the leads -
for instance how did the immigration records get deleted?
Did they enter the country illegally?
Today at 13: 49.53 (8 hours ago)Of course God knows who her murderers are, so do most Malaysians who can read. All the evidences, testimonies, motives and even SDs seem to point in one direction. But for some reasons all the allegations get deflected by some unknown but very powerful forces.
Today at 13: 58.52 (8 hours ago)I felt very questionable about UMNO. UMNO is in real shortage of qualified persons to fill the job of president. Thus Najiv has to come out as the only qualified candidate (forget about the other guy who got only one self nomination). The rest of people in UMNO are also just hungry for power. With a person full of scandals and allegations as president, it is going to turn worst for UMNO, BN and boleh.
Abdullah should consider to stay on. I better say we don’t know what is going to happen between now and March 2009. May be a sleepy prime minister is better than a prime minister full of allegations. He will put boleh so low down in the eyes of international communities. Which country has a leader with this kind of allegations and scandals?
Mahathir better don’t endorse Najiv, until he is sure that Najiv is not involved in any wrong doings. Else he may make another mistake about ‘picking’ the leader.
Today at 14: 06.34 (8 hours ago)This is called JUSTICE. My foot. It is really bolehland.
The two stupid idiots in the UTK are just pawns (deleted) A normal person will know that what motives have these two idiots have on the poor Mongolian woman to blown her to pieces. And in the first place, they dont even know her. There are thousands and thousands bums out there they can kill. Why picked on this woman? This whole episode stinks and DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE at all. The whole world will laugh at us {deleted)
This clearly proved that our judiciary has NEVER EVER been changed as promise by our sleepy flipflop guy.
How disgusting and shameful our country has become.
Today at 14: 11.47 (8 hours ago)I can now see that the ex prime ministers’ sons will be controlling UMNO. There will be a Club. Qualification will be unimportant but has to be by birth. The cycle will start with only those second (and third in the future) generation within the Club to be qualified as prime minister. We have several candidates in the waiting list……
Today at 14: 18.06 (8 hours ago)Just wondering how the judge, prosecution, defence, accused (both convicted and freed), witnesses and the whole lot of people involved in the “show” are going to have “peaceful nights” when their conscience will keep on haunting them for the rest of their lives! They may have gotten off the hook in this physical world of ours today, but come judgement day, we will see the judge, prosecution, defence, accused, witnesses and the others get what they deserve!
Many questions have yet to be answered after such a lengthy and tiring trial.
Who ordered the killing of Altantulya?
Where did the C4 come from?
How was the victim killed?
Who ordered the erasure of the immigration records of Altantulya?
How can you kill a person in this country who was not “physically” in this country?
Who was the mastermind behind the whole “act”?
What was the motive of the two policemen who carried out the killing and blowing up?
Who in reality are these two policemen? Since day 1 of the trial, they have been “wrapped” up like mummies both outside and in court. Who could “they” be? Are they really the ones whom they claim to be? Nobody has seen their mutt faces, so in the end, even if they are convicted and sentenced to be hanged, how can we be sure they are the ones hanged?????
This really makes a big MOCKERY out of our system of justice. With such a Chief Justice sitting on the bench, we can say “REST IN PEACE” (or pieces) to our system of justice!!!!!!
Today at 14: 43.45 (8 hours ago)It is not the court that has to answer the questions posed by ktteokt, but the police and the AG office. Others than those who know the fact, everybody else is curious why the two accused would on their own carry out the killing of Atlantuju. The obvious answer is that they were doing it for the person or persons who wanted Atlantuja dead. This is more so when after killing her, the body had to be disposed off. It says that the mastermind(s) are afraid that the crime could be traced to them. The funny thing was the use of the means to make the body disappear could be traced to only one likely source. Who then had the authority to allow the use, or was there a breakdown in the command? If that command could breakdown, the lives of the people in the country particularly those in power are at stake. A RCI should be established so that the people in position of power would not be subject to life-threatening blackmail.
Today at 15: 36.09 (7 hours ago)I read that in the early days, there were people whose job was to serve the jail terms for others. This was a kind of profession and the persons were well paid. Freedom is lost but how nice that you don’t have to work hard and get paid so nicely. Even nowadays, such kind of things are there for the car accidents. But would others die for you for the murder case?
In addition to this Mongolian lady case, isn’t it we have had one a few years ago involving the wife of a royal family? The security guard of the wife was sentenced, but no questioning was made on the wife of royal family (of course, she is also a royal family member). We already set bad examples in our judicial system. The opposition should have also questioned that particular case, in addition to this Mongolian lady case.
Today at 16: 04.03 (6 hours ago)OJ Simpson escaped from justice in 1994, but the long arm of God caught him in 2008. There is always someone watching from above
Today at 16: 10.01 (6 hours ago)great story line …..
we , rakyat …
always got the lifetime chance to watch great coverups in Malaysia.
Who are those corrupted ones ?
unmo malays ..
Who arethose that deprieved Malays from poverty living ?
umno malays ..
Who are those that called other races are threat to Malays and taking off with the actual wealth ?
umno malays ..
Who are those that changes our country policies and stay corrupted and blamed all these to other races and Malays believe their statement ?
umno malays ..
Who are those that can fan wide fire among races and blames Opposition as the reason and Malays praised them for their good work ?
umno malays.
Who among us are evil and still evil enough to laugh at us with fear and Malays thanked them for their livinghood ?
umno malays ..
wow ..such a long list of questions with only one answer ..heh !!
umno malays are that powerful and mightyful…
whatelse really left for the Malays themselves ..ohhhh!!
Today at 16: 23.49 (6 hours ago)UMNO has just given datukship to Shahrukh khan. Now it must give another to Razak Baggins, the ugly hobbit who has the One Ring
Today at 16: 35.28 (6 hours ago)ho…ho…ho…RCI??? You’ve got to be kidding! Who would in his right mind, agree to the setting up of an RCI to pry open his own can of worms? Of course he is going to deny it, notwithstanding the amount of power and wealth that this guy possesses which he will not hesitate one second to ensure that it will never see the light of day. You see, he has just too darn much to lose at this point. He is too close to the goal post right now to want to muck up this one last shot.
Today at 16: 37.09 (6 hours ago)Altantuya’s father should approach the Mongolian foreign ministry to put pressure on the Malaysian government to conduct a RCI.
Today at 16: 41.52 (6 hours ago)One does not have to be a genius to grasp all the facts of the case, even the ordinary man on the street feels that RB got acquitted because of his high connections and if Najib is man enough, he must agree to a RCI on him. Let’s see if he got the guts to go through an RCI.
Today at 17: 48.53 (4 hours ago)This is the expected outcome of the court case, given the corrupted judiciary and political connections. NR cannot afford to let RB sing. However, God’s justice will ALWAYS prevail, and we can rest assured in that truth.
Today at 18: 12.45 (4 hours ago)Ladies and gentlemen. Enough stories about NAJIB. Too Bad. Very BAD REPUTATION ALREADY. No choice but, all of use must stand up and VOTE FOR NO CONFIDENT against him…
With all the nonsense related to him, all the smeared images signed direct or indirectly, we should now stop recognising him as a GOOD MALAY LEADER not NOT EVEN A FAITHFUL MUSLIM and also he is NOT GOING TO BE A PROMISING LEADER OF MALAYSIA.
PAKATAN RAKYAT pls vote him out!
Today at 18: 23.21 (4 hours ago)Dad of Altantuya must bring the case to World Court!
If he needs money to do that, we Malaysians will contribute whole heartedly!
Let the World Court makes the judgement on najis and rosie.
Our Kangaroo courts are too tainted with scandals after scandals.
Today at 20: 15.41 (2 hours ago)If this YB has any Ministerial Integrity left in him he should stand down
Today at 22: 14.48 (30 minutes ago)THE WHOLE TRIAL PROCESS IS JUST A CIRCUS SHOW. HOW CAN BAGINDA RAZAK GOING TO BE GUILTY FOR THIS CRIME NOT COMMITED BY HIM, HIS ONLY GUILT’S IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH IN THE TRIAL. BUT HE WILL NEVER SLEEP WELL FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.
Today at 22: 39.53 (5 minutes ago)“Dad of Altantuya must bring the case to World Court!” – mendela at 18: 23.21.
Reporters asked Altantuya’s father Dr Setev Shariibuu Setev whether he would be taking the matter up with the World Court as a last resort.
Unfortunately, as far as I know, the International Criminal Court (ICC) established in 2002 has no such jurisdiction over private crimes.
ICC was founded upon the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. Jurisdiction clearly spelled out there covers only areas like genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression, all of which, if committed by private individuals (such as Hitler’s henchmen in Nuremberg trials, Japanese generals in Tokyo Trials, Saddam Hussein) were/are committed under the banner of their nation states or party organisation in terms of large-scale atrocity against any body or group of peoples.
The other point is whilst Mongolia is one of the countries having ratified or acceded to the Rome Statute, Malaysia has not.
Meanwhile Altantuya’s family has sued the three accused for her murder and the Malaysian government, seeking RM100 million in damages over her death. There is also a threat of Mongolian government severing diplomatic ties with Malaysia.
Other than that there’s nothing much Altantuya’s family could do except to approach international human rights organisation.
Dr Setev Shariibuu Setev has left two questions for Malaysians to ask:
1. who arranged the visa issue for Altantuya Shaariibuu when she visited France?
2. Who was accompanying or attending the trip to France with Altantuya Shaariibuu and what did they do there?
Well if the answers are not obtainable in Malaysia, they might – in France.